culture & society
Why listening is particularly valuable now: Jens Lönneker on media & democracy
Jens Lönneker
Editor Anna Schmid from Focus Online asked Jens Lönneker why he currently considers the study "Media between respect and ostracism" to be his most important.
Read the interview verbatim here. Or use the link:
Jens Lönneker is a depth psychologist. In his "most important study" to date, he examined media critics: people who no longer trust the mass media. Lönneker says: "The results shocked me personally."
FOCUS online: Mr. Lönneker, do you still read the newspaper?
Jens Lönneker: Yes, I really enjoy it. I'm old school. I don't see the newspaper as a cumbersome relic from earlier times, but I'm happy that journalists take the trouble to prepare news and inform me.
Not everyone is as enthusiastic about the established media as you are. Your investigation "Media between respect and ostracism" shows this.
Lönneker: That's right.
You said some time ago that this was the "most important study" you have ever carried out.
Lönneker: That's right. Because it's about democracy and its prerequisites. This includes established media that are respected by everyone - or at least most people. People have the feeling that they are portraying reality as it is.
If a large part of the population no longer believes in this, then our coexistence is at risk. The study shows that a quarter of the population no longer considers the established media to be trustworthy. This questions the system.
What are your most important findings?
Lönneker: That an enormous number of people no longer believe in the way news has been prepared, as we have done for years. 25 percent of people say: I don't trust the whole thing anymore, I think the politicians have commissioned the media to report like this, and so on. I didn't think that was possible before the study. Not to this extent.
Why not?
Lönneker: There have been studies that have critically examined the credibility of the media. But it's something else when you're up close and personal. Our study consisted of two parts: in-depth psychological interviews and standardized questionnaires. Especially in the interviews, I experienced firsthand how fed up many people are with the media. That shocked me personally.
Is there a situation from the conversations that has stuck in your mind?
Lönneker: When I think about it: Yes. I was sitting opposite a woman whose parents came from Turkey. She is German with a migration background. In the interview, she explained to me that she thinks there are too many foreigners coming to Germany. She was of the opinion that the AfD's theses are not present enough in the media. She did not find the AfD to be xenophobic.
Not a reaction you would expect.
Lönneker: Yes. I was surprised at first.
Did the woman say why she thinks that way?
Lönneker: She was of the opinion that Germany spends a lot of money to cope with refugee flows. And we have lost our sense of proportion. She said that there was a lot wrong here too. Broken streets, dilapidated bridges and a railway that you can't rely on. The woman thought we weren't taking enough care of ourselves. When I listened to her, it became clear to me how prejudiced many discussions are.
The woman is not alone in her attitude. As you said: According to your study, 25 percent of Germans are media critics. How come?
Lönneker: There is a general reason that we have identified: these people feel that the established media no longer reflect their concerns. The woman I just spoke about is a good example. She is worried that we are not taking enough care of ourselves.
She is not a hater of foreigners, she herself has a migration background. And there is something to her fears: Deutsche Bahn has hardly been renovated for a long time, our bridges have seen better days. The woman hardly finds these topics or too little in the mainstream press.
In your study, you divide media critics into three groups. Which ones?
Lönneker: On the one hand, there are those who experience a kind of "media overkill" and try to consume little or no news. This exists in Germany, but also internationally. I think this has to do, among other things, with the way news is presented. It is often attention-grabbing, scandalous, alarmist, very negative. Some users feel permanently aroused. This can lead to avoidance behavior.
What other groups are there?
Lönneker: The second group does not see itself reflected in media coverage. I remember a young nutrition and fitness coach who I interviewed for our study. He belonged to this group.
What made him special?
Lönneker: His wife and child are vaccinated against Covid-19, he himself is not. It became clear in the conversation that he feels very alone. That he thinks he can only rely on himself and his body.
For this man, the idea of getting an injection of something that has not undergone long-term testing was a horror. He did not find his perspective in the media: only that of the idiot who is inaccessible to arguments and only thinks of himself.
And what did you think when you heard the man's arguments?
Lönneker: I could understand his perspective. He was suddenly no longer a Covidiot to me. This shows how important it is to listen to each other. Not everyone who has a different opinion is automatically an idiot.
Let's get to the third group.
Lönneker: These are people who are looking for friction. They criticize the established media, but also deal with them intensively. Interestingly, this group is the most accessible. You can imagine it like a relationship: arguments are sometimes healing.
Can "media-weary" people be won back for the mainstream press?
Lönneker: I think each of these three groups is accessible in their own way. The overwhelmed, i.e. the first group, would perhaps consume more news again if it were not so exaggerated. If everything was a little more "muted". But that has nothing to do with embellished reporting, just on the sidelines.
What about those who can't find themselves? Like the young fitness coach?
Lönneker: I think if we start listening to each other more and allowing more arguments, then a better coexistence would be possible. It would be interesting, for example, to publish more conversations with people who hold opposing opinions.
Such debates can be very enriching. I am currently seeing a tendency in the established media to fuel camp thinking. According to the motto: here the Nazis, there those who are morally on the right side. Here the conspiracy theorists, there the reasonable ones.
Does the AfD have anything to do with "media contempt"?
Lönneker: First of all: We interviewed media users, not representatives of the party. It is interesting, however, that those who have developed a strong media aversion often say that they feel abandoned by the system and politics. They have a high willingness to vote for parties that criticize the "system". These include the AfD and BSW, for example.
The fact that some people feel so left behind sounds alarming.
Lönneker: It is. There are well-known media theorists who say: Without mass media, we will not be able to maintain democracy. They make a significant contribution to its legitimacy. Through mass media, people participate in society and in the system. It is all the more dangerous when every fourth person no longer trusts the established media and turns away from them.
In addition, the mass media have to contend with other problems.
Lönneker: That's right. Many of them are being deprived of their economic substance. Advertising revenue is declining. Then there are the large technology companies, which are increasingly determining our basic media provision. At EU level, attempts are at least being made to curb the influence of Big Tech.
Back to the more concrete content of your study. 78 percent of media critics agreed with the statement "We are driving Germany into the ground if we continue like this - but this is not enough of a topic in the media." What do you think: Are these people right?
Lönneker: We should also add that 41 percent of those who accept the established media are of the same opinion. There seems to be something to this assessment. There is little optimism. This is a wake-up call to the media, but also to politicians. People who have lost faith in the system become susceptible to populism, become radicalized, and so on.
Especially when it comes to politics, you often hear: We need results and no empty promises.
Lönneker: Yes, many people want to see results. Then they are told that it is not that easy, that there are rules and votes are needed with other countries. Things like that. This is frustrating and impatience is growing. For many, the "improvement process" is too complex. Then parties get approval who say: The crisis can be solved more easily.
What could politicians do better?
Lönneker: Firstly, listen more. Because listening shows attention and creates new perspectives. Often, the crucial concerns and worries of citizens are hidden behind hot topics such as Corona, the EU, Putin: the lack of recognition of many East German life stories, the school problems during the Corona period, the difficulties in the healthcare system, a partially dilapidated transport infrastructure. Many citizens feel unheard here.
On the other hand, politicians should not stand by and watch as the economic base of many regional media continues to dwindle, even out of self-interest. This is a structural problem that individual media outlets cannot solve. Without serious regional media, the stages for regional politics and their democratic base also disappear.
And what can journalists do?
Lönneker: Here too, the following applies: We must learn to listen again. People who feel they are not getting enough attention will eventually lash out. Journalists should make an effort to enter into conversations without prejudice.
Ask yourself again and again: Am I putting someone in a box right now? Have I really understood my counterpart? It is important to engage with supposedly unpleasant opinions and not immediately dismiss anyone as an idiot.
What do you think: If we continue like this, where is society heading?
Lönneker: The first thing that comes to my mind is: The tendency towards fewer local media outlets will consolidate. We can already talk about a newspaper dying out. This leads to the next step: Where the regional media are no longer available, populism increases, as studies have shown.
So what does that mean?
Lönneker: I have hope that there will be a counter-movement. We should get involved. Communicate better. There are various initiatives, people who are committed to rebuilding more media trust. But above all, we must listen to each other better again. Listening builds bridges to new perspectives.